171 | How to Build Trust & Get Buy-In Through Brilliant Employee Communication (with Nik Nawaaz)

Today's episode is all about something that sits right at the

heart of your impact in HR, but it often doesn't get the attention it deserves,

and it's employee communication.

Because you can design the best strategy, introduce brilliant benefits, or roll

out important change, but if people don't understand it, engage with it,

or take action on it, it simply won't land in the way that you want it to.

And I know from the work that I do as a career and leadership coach supporting

HR and people professionals, that this is something many people find frustrating.

You've put a lot of effort into something important, and then it

feels like no one is really listening.

So in today's episode of HR Coffee Time, we're going to change that.

I'm your host, Fay Wallis, and today I'm so thrilled to be joined by

Nik Nawaaz, who is head of employee communications at Barnett Waddingham,

which is now part of Howden.

Nik has a wealth of experience in employee communications, with

more than 20 years of experience in agency and client side roles.

He describes his approach as being digital first and entirely solutions

driven, always making sure that messaging doesn't just reach the workforce,

but actually resonates with them.

And in this conversation, he shares some brilliant practical advice that

you can start using straightaway.

We talk about what employee communication really is and why it matters so much

for HR, the common mistakes that stop messages from landing, simple

shifts that can instantly improve engagement, and how to get people to

actually take action, whether that's using benefits, completing surveys,

or preparing for performance reviews.

And also, we look at how to communicate effectively during

times of change and uncertainty, something that can be so challenging.

I'm incredibly grateful to Nik for sharing his ideas with us.

I hope you're going to enjoy learning from him as much as I did.

Let's go ahead and meet him now.

Welcome to the show, Nik.

It is so fantastic to have you here today.

Thank you so much, Fay.

I've really been looking forward to this.

I've watched, um, a number of your other recordings.

So, um, yeah, really looking forward to having this conversation.

Oh, that's so wonderful to hear, and I'm really looking

forward to everyone having the opportunity to learn from you.

I've said to you so many times, gosh, we could be doing a whole miniseries

because you have so much knowledge about employee comms, but we'll just

stick with the one episode for now, and maybe I'll be lucky- ... and get you

back on the show again in the future.

Absolutely, abs-- well, unless anyone is interested in listening to two

and a half hours, which is, you know-

like a Lord of the Rings.

We should call it the Lord of, Lord of Comms.

Series.

Oh, brilliant.

Yeah, the Lord of the Rings episode.

Okay.

Right.

Okay.

I'll try and not make it the Lord of the Rings or Lord of the Comms

episode and try and keep us- ... keep us to time, always a challenge.

I better start us off by asking you a question that I always think

is helpful to start with, which is to ask you for a definition.

So employee comms, lots of people will be familiar with

it, but some people may not be.

Can you please describe to us exactly what is it?

Yeah.

I think for a lot of people it, it means slightly different things.

Um, you know, s- for some people it's about, um, you know, really

articulate, really articulating the business vision, for example.

But for me, personally, I think employee communication is the

connective tissue of an organization.

So for, you know, the people that are normally watching, for your

followers, you know, HR and rewards teams can design, say, the best,

you know, restructures or the best benefits package for the workforce.

But without effective communications, um, and I'm not talking about effective

being, you know, how many people have downloaded something, but actually

talking and listening, those things just become noise in a busy inbox.

So for me it is about being that connective tissue.

Um, and I think the, the other thing as well in terms of why I think it's maybe

really important, um, you know, for HR professionals is that, you know, I've,

I've sat in many HR teams in my role as employee comms, and personally I've always

enjoyed sitting within HR teams because so often when I talk to clients, HR becomes

this almost like a faceless department.

Um, and I don't think it, I don't think it should be because HR teams are the one

that always have the pulse of a business.

So for me, um, in terms of why it's important, um, I think

it's about being visible.

So, you know, visibility isn't about being on stage, for example.

Um, it's about being accessible.

So, you know, sometimes just walking the floor saying hello to people by

name is way more effective than any monthly newsletter could ever be.

Um, so, you know, that's, that's, that's one thing that I would, um, I would

describe, um, a, a, you know, what is employee comms and why it's important.

I should point out at this point that Nik is doing such a

better job of talking about what we had agreed we'd talk about today.

I'd said to Nik, "Okay, I'm gonna start off, and the first question is going to

be can you share a definition of employee communications, and can you tell us why

you think it's so important for HR?"

And I completely forgot to say the why it's so

important- ... for HR professionals.

So thank you for rescuing me there and telling everyone who's listening- Not at

all ... why you think it's so important.

And I completely agree with you, otherwise I guess we wouldn't

be doing this episode, would we?

But what worries me is hearing you say things like HR can seem a bit faceless.

Is that the expression that you just used?

Mm. Yeah, and so it makes me- I did, yeah ... it makes me wonder what do

you think the mistakes are that HR professionals tend to make when it

comes to employee communications?

Yeah, so I think one of the mistakes that I, I, I tend to see

is that we, you know, HR people tend to, we often write communications

from our own perspective, right?

We're proud of a new system or we need to do this because it's, you

know, we need to tick that box.

But, you know, an employee is really busy.

They're stressed.

They have an inbox full of other things going on.

And for me, they're always subconsciously asking, "Well, so what?

Why does it matter to- why does this matter to me?

You know, the stuff that you've just sent to me, how does it impact me and my job?

Because I've got a million other things to do, and you've- I've just received

this from you." So, you know, but if y- so if your message doesn't really answer

that in the first, say, 10 seconds, they'll delete it because they'll see

it as irrelevant to them, that you're just basically broadcasting something.

So for me, it's about, you know, um, really in terms of how you make

things better, it's about shifting from talking about, say, features.

You know, say for example, if you're launching a new HRIS,

don't talk about the features.

You know, like the, oh, the, the portal has a new look and

feel or a, a new user interface.

But talking about its benefits.

You know, things like you can now check your remaining holiday days from your

phone in under 30 seconds, and already you're giving them a reason to go to

the, to the thing that you want them to do, to action something, but also to

actually read your message because you're saying, "I'm making your life easier."

And that's what I think we need to, we need to really get into the habit of.

Oh, it's such good advice.

Because as human beings, we are all inherently- More interested in

ourselves than anyone else, aren't we?

Even if we'd like to think that's not the case.

So that makes a lot of sense to be approaching it in that way.

And what I love about- Mm ... so much of your advice, and what

you've just shared there, is that that's quick and easy to implement.

That doesn't take a huge amount of time to think about.

It doesn't cost any money to start thinking, "So what?" When you sit

down to start writing an email.

And although that is- Mm

quite a quick win, you've shared with us already they're really quick

wins, I know that you have a whole host of quick wins up your sleeve.

Because when we've- ... spoken before, I've heard lots of them.

So would you be happy to just share a few more of what some of those

fabulous quick wins are for us all?

Yeah.

So I think first of all, um, as, as a, as a tip, I would say maybe you

need to be talking to us and my team.

So that would be one.

That's a, so that's a shameless plug there about what, uh, what,

what, what me and my team can do.

But no, seriously, um, you know, I think my first tip is, this is something

I've always said, I, I, and I say this to my team as well because sometimes

we get used to doing something and, you know, we just get into a habit.

My first tip is take your last email that you've drafted, right?

And look at the first sentence.

And if it starts with, "HR is pleased to announce," or, um,

"Please be advised," you know, that's very much corporate speak.

If it starts with anything like that, delete it, and start instead

with, "To help you," or, you know, "We've heard that you need XYZ."

Um, if you can make that one shift, so moving the why you are communicating to

the very top, I think you'll immediately see higher engagement, um, and potentially

more respect from the business.

Because what you're doing is you're putting the employee's

needs first, you know?

So I think that's my first tip.

Um, you know, and it goes back to the whole so what thing, you know, that I've

just mentioned, always asking, "Well, so what? What is, what is, what's in

it for me?" Um, my second tip, I think that, um... And I think it's just the

way that as HR people, I think sometimes we're wired this way, we tend to hide

behind, uh, corporate speak, right?

Because it feels safe.

Um, we use words like, um, and I still hear it, to be honest, um,

e- e- even with, with my own team.

It's not like I'm completely different or my team's completely different.

But we use words like alignment, human capital, synergy.

But realistically, nobody uses those words at a dinner table.

And when you use that kind of language, you just, again, it's going back to

that sounding like a faceless, robotic department and not a human being.

So for me, the best comms is about, you know, using plain English, being

conversational, and being quite direct.

So look at it this way.

If you wouldn't say it that way to a colleague over a coffee- Then don't

put it in an email to a whole company

Again, it's such great advice, and it's something I really

try actually in my emails, and I have a weekly newsletter that goes out.

But I, I feel I had to learn how to do that when I first stepped out of my HR

career to become a coach, and I started learning about things like having

newsletters so people can get to know you and your services and stay in touch.

My default was really to write in quite a formal way, and one thing that helped

me to stop doing that, hopefully I don't sound really formal and corporate speak

in my emails anymore, is actually reading things aloud, and then you can see- Yes

or I've found if I write an email and then I start reading it out loud, I'll think,

"Oh, hang on a minute. That, that sounds a bit strange. That doesn't sound how, how

I would say it- Yeah ... in real life."

Yeah.

And I think, you know, the other trick that I do, so I use this, I do

this all the time, and again, this is another free thing that exists.

So whenever I'm writing a, a film script, for example, um, for a client, you

know, whenever we're doing a film with a CEO or the head of HR, for example.

So I, you know, I'll sit here, and I'll write a script.

And in, um, in Word, you can actually play it back to yourself.

Oh.

I don't know

whether you knew about that.

No, I

don't think I did know about that.

Yeah.

So,

yeah.

So it's really, really good because you can choose whether you want

it to sound American, whether you want it to be UK English, whatever.

I always go for UK English, obviously.

But, um, you can play it back to yourself, and you can for a s- you know, for a

script especially, it tells you when, oh, it's all a bit monotonous, or maybe

you need to go up here, and you need to, you know, you need to add a comma to give

you that pause, et cetera, et cetera.

So that's a, that's a really neat thing to have.

It's, it's in Word, so you should have it as a, as a kind

of, you know, normal plugin.

Ooh, I'm gonna have to go away and give that a try afterwards.

The next question I have for you, when I wrote it down, I'm sure you

would tell me how to improve this, it is so long that I can't remember it.

So I'm actually going to look at my laptop, and I'm gonna read the

question out to you from this, uh, Word document I've got in front of me.

Yeah.

I suppose I could actually play the feature and have Word read it to you, but

that might be a bit odd at this point.

So the question is, there are two types of communication I've been thinking

about for this interview that I know HR professionals will often find challenging.

The first is getting people to take action on things like utilizing

their employee benefits, completing an engagement survey, or carrying

out an annual performance review.

So I guess they're things that people think are a bit boring, and they

just don't feel inclined to do them.

What are your tips for anyone listening right now who would like to know how

to increase the chances that people will take action on things like this?

Yeah, I think you know what?

Benefits communication is something that, um, is just really at the

top of the list at the moment.

Um, you know, recently, you know, our company, Bonnet Waddingham,

was acquired by Howden, as you know, and Howden is known for, you

know, brokering, um, benefits for businesses, et cetera, globally.

Um, so you know, we're working with them at the moment to really, um, help their

clients with, uh, benefits communications.

For me, you know, the benefits guide or the handbook approach

can't be the only solution because realistically not everybody reads a

40-page PDF on their first day, right?

I know I've never done it.

Um, and then eventually you, you probably read like the first 10 pages

and you think, "Okay, I'll park that and I'll come back to it later,"

and then you never pick it up again.

Um, y- and you know, for the last 10 years or so, I think lots of companies

have been talking about, um, you would've heard about life events, you know?

And what I mean by that is when you group your benefits in, you

would've heard a lot of companies talk about into moments that matter.

You know, like, so those moments are things like buying a house,

starting a family, or managing stress.

Now some, you know, some of them do it really well, others not so much.

What I'm, what I'm trying to do with Howden at the moment, and Howden is,

is really good at this, is that... is to do things a little bit differently.

We've looked at some of the challenges that the HR community

and the rewards team face when it comes to benefits communication.

You know, there are things like, you know, these teams are

juggling a dozen priorities.

They have no dedicated budget a lot of the time, and they're

trying to cut through the daily noise of technical jargon, right?

Now, our approach is, um, a couple of things.

So we kind of tackle it with the, the what, the where, and the why, right?

The, the... If you, if I start with the why, right?

Um, and it will all make sense why I'm starting with the

why a little bit later on.

But the why is about the outcome that you want to get from them

interacting with the benefit, right?

So you want people to see how your investment your organization is making

actually protect their families.

So when one- once we know what that is- We then look at the where.

Well, where are they?

You know, your people, um, in an organization, they're not a

monolith, they are everywhere.

You know, they're in the office, they're in the field, they're working from home.

Um, you know, so how do you ac- how do you make sure that people have the

same access to the same information?

You know, from someone who's sitting at a desk who can easily go onto a

portal versus someone who's on the field and doesn't have that same access.

And then we look at the what.

You know, what do we give them to make sure that it is the

right tool for where they are?

So we kind of ditch the one size fits all approach.

Um, you know, and we, we kind of create stuff that's specific to the culture of an

organization, like whether it's, you know, high energy videos, simple infographics.

So, you know, the where, what, why is the, the, the way that we approach it.

And we wrap this around, um, our philosophy of education,

inspiration, and action.

So everything that we create starts with education first 'cause because

one of the things that, you know, we are aware of when it comes to benefits

communication is a lot of people don't really understand the benefits.

And if they don't understand the benefits, they don't have it, if that makes sense.

So we kind of, we look at removing jargon.

We've to try to bring things to life in terms of why you need a benefit rather

than just saying this is the benefit.

But the other thing that we do, and this is the third thing, everything that we do

when it comes to employee comms as well as benefit communication, is looking at

it through a multi-generational lens.

You know, what I mean by that is, you know, every business has different

generations, and I'm talking about your, your Gen Xers, your Gen Ys,

your millennials, your boomers.

It all exists, and soon we're gonna have the generation Alpha coming in as well.

All those people want different things at different times of their lives.

So, you know, a 45, 50, 60 person is probably more interested in,

"Well, what healthcare do I have?

What pen- what, what is my pension pot's gonna look like?" Realistically,

a 21-year-old coming into the business are probably thinking

about, "Oh my God, um, where am I going on my next holiday?" Right?

So the benefits that are appropriate for a 21-year-old coming into

the business is very different.

So the toolkits that we have use messages and tones that speak

their specific, specific language.

So it's very much about not just applying a blanket approach, but

thinking, okay- No ... we need to actually adapt our messaging for the different

groups and the different types of people that we have within the organization.

Yeah.

Ab- absolutely.

It's, it's the only way you're gonna get engagement because if you think

about it, um, when you look at the different generations, when you say

you've got your baby boomers versus your Generation X- The kind of content

they engage with are vastly different.

You know, your generation X's are looking at short-form content, videos,

Instagram type stuff, social media.

Your 50, 60-year-olds are going to react more positively towards a benefit

or the, or the communication through either face-to-face, long-form content,

which is completely the opposite of what your 21-year-old's expecting, um,

because they're a different generation.

The, the way that they deal with content is very, very different.

So sending one email to everyone, you will not get the level of

engagement that you're thinking.

As you're talking about that, I can absolutely see how that would

just be invaluable when communicating about benefits and really hoping that

people will take advantage of them.

Because that's the thing, isn't it?

That you can lay on all these fabulous benefits, but people

just don't engage with them.

But- Mm ... also listening to what you were just saying, I hadn't really

thought about it like this before.

If we want people to have their performance appraisal conversation and

prepare for it, or we want people to take action on an employee engagement survey, I

hadn't really thought about the fact that actually the messaging might need to be

different for different groups of people.

Yes, in my mind I'd have thought, oh, okay, for performance appraisal

conversations, we're going to need to do a different kind of communication for

the managers because of course they're the ones who are formally sitting down

as the line manager with the person, to different communication with the

person who is the person going in and being managed by that line manager.

I'm describing this really badly.

Yeah.

But I hadn't thought about the fact that actually it would be beneficial

to have even more nuanced and more sophisticated and just slightly

different communication for people who might be at different stages of their

career or benefiting from those- Yeah

conversations in different ways.

And actually I think you've, you've hit a really good point there

re- just regarding line managers.

You know, um, when it comes to communication, communication doesn't

have to sit with just one person, right?

In the be- so, so if you're thinking, oh, well, you know, it's in- it's

employee communication, so that must sit with internal comms team, or if

you don't have an internal comms team, then HR tends to lead on it, but it

doesn't have to sit with one person.

Um, in my experience, whenever you're rolling out any form of communication,

whether it's about a new system, a new policy, et cetera, line managers

are your... Well, they need to be your biggest supporters, right?

Because they're the ones who have the connection with the team, right?

They're that layer between HR and the broader workforce And if you can get them

on board, if you can get them to, um, to really listen to you and take on the

challenge that you're facing, it would- it makes communicating so much easier because

you've then got the people that they would listen to talking about the same thing.

So a lot of the stuff that we do in our team is, you know, whenever we're

launching a new platform or we're talking about a new CEO video even

that's going out, um, we always say to the client, "Look, do your other

leaders need some talking points? Don't just assume they know it. Do your

line managers need to have some, you know, Q&As, like a little toolkit?"

And it doesn't- a toolkit doesn't have to be a 25-page thing.

It can just be a three pages.

These are the key points that you as manager need to be aware of in case your

team asks you a question, because no managers ever want to be asked a question

and they say, "Oh, I don't know." Because then the employee just think, "Oh, I

should've just gone straight to X and asked because my manager doesn't know."

So what you want to do is for your l- your, your line managers, your people

managers to feel supported because actually, if you're elevating them, your

job becomes easier when it comes to comms.

Mm. Such an important point.

Yeah.

It's amazing actually how managers just hold the key to so much.

Those poor managers, they've got to do an awful lot- They do

haven't they?

But I guess this is a way of really helping them as well by

giving them the tools to be able to do their job really well.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Abso- and actually, I've got a tip here about, um, with, with managers.

Um, there is this thing that I've used for many, many years

in, at the back of my mind.

It's not, like, an official thing that I have on my agenda.

So whenever, um ... I, I m- I must have come across it from somewhere,

but I've kind of adopted it in my head.

I call it the first five.

So in any meeting with a non-HR department, just spend the first

five minutes just listening to what's on those people's plates.

So don't just jump in with your HR agenda, because I think that when you show you're

interested in their operational struggles, I think they'll then be far more likely to

listen when you need their help later on.

So that's kind of something that I always do whenever I go into a, a kind

of non-HR, when I've been client side.

Um, at the back of my head, five minutes, that's all I need.

You know, "What's going on with you? What, what's, what's challenging this week?

Is there anything that, you know, we can help with, or have you got it sorted?"

And let them speak, and just listen.

It's amazing just how powerful doing that listening piece can be.

I think it really- Helps build that trust with people, that sense of connection.

People really like to be listened to, don't they?

It affects how we feel, and that actually makes me think it leads perfectly onto my

next question that I wanted to ask you, Nik, which is any advice that you have for

HR professionals who are having to think about communications during periods of

fear and uncertainty and times of change.

So for example, like if they're having to go through a restructure, that's

times when people get so nervous and worried at work, and it can feel hard

to know the best way of communicating.

Yeah.

I mean, I think at the moment there's been so many changes that's, that's

happening in, within the industry as a whole that, you know, people

are starting to kind of go through this whole change fatigue stuff.

But I think one thing that I always start with is, you know,

in the absence of information, uh, people will always create a horror

story just to fill the gap, right?

So silence is always kind of perceived as this threat.

So even if, you know, you don't have all the answers about the merger

or the new restructure, uh, the new restructure, um, what you should do

is communicate maybe what's going on.

Tell them, "Look," and be completely omni- honest because with change, so many

things are uncertain and there's no way you'll have all the answers all the time.

So tell them, be honest.

Say, "Look, we don't know what the new structure is yet, but we will

update you on the 20th of May," right?

So by communicating kind of a timeline, it gives people a sense of certainty

that, you know, you've got this.

You don't have it now, but you're telling me that I'm gonna come back

to you in the next couple of weeks.

Um, you know, another example, you know, let's say you're

launching a new HRIS, right?

Um, and we need to s- what we need to do is stop talking about the project,

and I think sometimes going back to what we were saying earlier on about

corporate speak, um, you know, we need to move away from referring to project

and start talking about the progress.

So, you know, and use storytelling.

Um, you know, often you'll see an email with a subject line, "Phase two of our

digital transformation." But instead, you know, share a quick story or a quote from

a team lead, for example, who have saved five hours a week using the new system.

That's way better than saying, you know, "Phase two of our system."

Um, you know, real-world proof from a peer is 10 times more persuasive

than, I don't know, a PowerPoint slide from a project manager.

So I think think about it that way.

I think when it comes to change especially, I think

that use your senior leaders.

Really bring in your senior, get them to talk about it, because you

can't do it on the- on your own.

You need that top level support.

You need that influence to really have that impact.

Bring them in.

One thing I always say that I've, I've been in a couple of conferences

where when I talk about comms, I don't know if you know about an

African proverb I always quote Which is, you know, it takes a village.

Um, you know, the Af- the, the whole sentence is it takes

a village to raise a child.

Well, internal comms or employee comms is the same.

It takes everyone to be effective in employee comms for employee comms to land.

So it's not just, it doesn't sit with you, one person.

It doesn't just sit with marketing or internal comms team.

It's everyone.

If everyone speaks the same language, um, if you're communicating about

a change and everyone is saying the same thing, that becomes the accepted

norm, and that's what it should

be.

Well, I hope that anyone listening who is having difficulty getting buy-in

from other people in the organisation to back them, and they do feel like

they're having to handle all of these comms by themselves, that they can play

them this part of the episode, Nate, to convince leadership or whoever it

might be who they can't get on board that this is a good idea and that it's

going to make that massive difference.

But it's- Mm ... been so wonderful talking to you.

I feel really sad that we're nearly at the end of our time together today.

I honestly could just talk to you about this all day long, and I'm so

grateful that you've shared so much of your brilliant knowledge with us all.

Before I say goodbye and do a final thank you, can I ask you the question I try to

ask everyone who comes on the show, which is, do you have a book recommendation

or a resource recommendation you would like to share with us all right now?

Yeah, of course.

I've been thinking about this and you, you know, one automatically goes to,

um, thinking about, oh, gosh, what books would be a really, really good one?

But actually, I thought to myself, what is something that people can use?

'Cause because I've been trying to think about tips that I could give

throughout this, this chat with you, Fay.

And I think that, um, I would recommend a TED Talk that I watched, uh, that

So it's a bit of an old one, but, um, I think it's a

really good one for HR people.

It's a TED Talk by Simon Sinek.

I don't know if anyone knows of him.

Um, and he did a talk called How Great Leaders Inspire Action, right?

Um, and I think for a lot of my HR friends, um, you know, who have been

in the industry for years, it tends to be kind of a gold standard for

anyone in that kind of environment who wants to really build influence.

And he talks about, there's a whole thing about, I think about one minute

and a half in or something, um, he talks about the golden circle and why

you must start with the why, which is why at the beginning when I talked

about the, the where, what, and why, I wanted to talk about the why first.

You know, in HR, we often start with what the policy is or what the new benefit is.

But what Simon does, or Mr. Sinek or, you know, however you want to call

him, but what he reminds us are- us is that people don't buy what you

do, they buy why you do it, right?

So why are you offering this benefit?

You're never gonna say, "Oh, it's because we're saving m-" No, it's

bec- you, you've chosen this benefit because it has a positive impact on

your life as an employee or a colleague.

So if you want to close what I call that value gap, because if people don't put

any value to the, you know, to what you're saying, between what you provide and what

the employees perceive, um, then you have to lead with a human purpose behind it.

So have a look at that, How Great Leaders Inspire Action.

Oh, it's such a great TED Talk, and I'd forgotten that

was the title of it actually.

I really, really enjoy hearing a lot of what Simon Sinek has to say, and

actually, I play a clip of him talking in my Inspiring HR Leadership programme.

So, uh, you're not the only fan of his stuff.

I think he's great as well.

Oh, brilliant.

Good.

And I'll make sure I put a link to that TED Talk in the show notes for anyone

who's listening and would like to look it up straightaway, and I'll also pop a

link to it in the YouTube description for anyone who's watching this on YouTube.

So before I say a final goodbye, for anyone listening or watching right

now, Nik, who is thinking, "Oh, I wonder how I could work with Nik or

how I can learn more about the work that he does", what would be the best

way of them getting in touch with you or finding out more about your work?

Sure.

I think probably the easiest way is maybe my LinkedIn profile, um,

which I'm sure you'll probably put in the notes at the bottom.

Uh, so I don't mind having that on there.

Um, and we'll also put a link to, um, our, kind of, in, um,

engagement and communications, um, section on the company website.

That might help just to give an idea of how we approach, um, employee comms.

That might help.

But, um, I think maybe for now, um, LinkedIn would be the

simplest way to, to, to do it.

So, you know, if anyone wants to have a chat, please just, um, add me,

connect, um, and send me a message.

Happy to chat anytime.

Fantastic.

Well, I'll make sure I put links to both of those things in the

show notes and YouTube description.

And all that leaves me to say is a huge thank you for your time today.

It has been brilliant chatting to you.

Thank you, Fay.

Thank you for having me, and it's been really, really good.

Sorry we're probably gonna be over, but I've really enjoyed it.

Thank you.

I hope you enjoyed learning from Nik as much as I did.

There were so many useful takeaways in there, but for me, one of the biggest

is probably that if your communication doesn't answer the question, "So what?"

for the person receiving it, it's very easy for it to be ignored, and that small

shift from focusing on what you want to say to what actually matters to the other

person can make such a big difference.

If you'd like to listen to another episode of HR Coffee Time next that goes

well with today's one, I'd recommend hopping all the way back to episode

32, which is called How to Write Work Emails that Get Results, with Kim Arnold.

A lot of the advice that Kim shares complements what

Nik spoke to us about today.

And Nik and I would love to hear if you're going to be putting

any of his advice into action.

Please do get in touch to let us know.

You can always leave us a comment underneath the YouTube video

if you're watching on YouTube, or send a message on LinkedIn.

I'll make sure that I put links to both of our profiles in the show notes

and the YouTube description for you.

As always, thank you so much for listening or watching today, and I'm

looking forward to being back again in two weeks' time with the next episode for

you.